Washburn's World

My take on the world. My wife often refers to this as the WWW (Weird World of Washburn)

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Location: Germantown, Wisconsin, United States

I am a simple country boy transplanted from the Piehl Township in northern Wisconsin to the Milwaukee metropolitan area who came down "sout" in 1980 for college and have stayed in the area since.
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Monday, November 12, 2007

Exemption from Having an SSN

My 16 year old son is in the process of getting is Wisconsin class D operator’s license. He decided some months ago to avail himself of a little known (and never advertised) provision of Wisconsin State law which requires the DMV to create a DMV without a social security number.

As part of the new and unconstitutional process for the implementation of this statue and transportation regulation, my son and I travelled to Madison so he could be interviewed on the nature and sincerity of his religious beliefs; an inquiry into his religious purity if you will.

The question I have for this small audience is this. How do you file for and receive an exemption from having an SSN? During this interview the interviewer from the DMV asked if either my son or I had filed for and/or received an exemption from having a social security number. I have ask for just such an exemption over the course of the last two decades and have been consistently told NO. There is no procedure for exemption from having an SSN.

Clearly I was wrong. The DMV knows that such exemptions are possible and have been granted or it would not have been part of the administrative hearing. The exemption from using an SSN for a WI driver’s license is little because unless you ask for the proper form by NUMBER, you will be told no such form exists and that you must provide a SSN to get a driver's license.

I would like to file for and gets this exemption. I suspect the federal version of this exemption is the same as the state's version. It is a secret unless you ask for the precise forms by number and cite the correct, arcane, implementing federal regulations. If anyone knows how this is done, please leave a comment to this blog article.

11 Comments:

Blogger Dave Hinners said...

Mr. Washburn - My guess is that you have misinterpreted the intent of the exemption form. In this case, and probably in all others, the requested exemption is for you to be allowed to not use your SSN where it would typically be required. So, every institution that requests your SSN as part of their process would require an SSN exemption request to be filed before they would make other allowances. Beautiful, is it not?

Mon Nov 12, 07:53:00 AM CST  
Blogger Patrick O'Hara said...

I am unsure what a federal exemption would get you? I assume you have been asked for your Social Security Number from a federal organization other than the IRS. Since your SSN was generated by and in s sense belongs to the IRS, asking them to allow you to use a different identifier seems pointless. An interesting point to consider is under what grounds the IRS will allow you to change your identifier. What other federal agency/organization has requested your SSN?

Mon Nov 12, 08:01:00 AM CST  
Blogger John Washburn said...

I don't know what this exemption is.

The DMV had as a standard question on their hearing form: Have you applied for or recieved an exemption from using the Social Security Number?

Clearly, the DMV believes such exemptions exist and are used.

Mon Nov 12, 10:26:00 AM CST  
Blogger Dave Hinners said...

Apparently you need to obtain (from the local Social Security office)form SSA-L676 which will delineate your ineligibility for a Social Security number. Reasons for ineligibility can, I believe, include your beliefs on the subject - i.e. religious, moral, ethical objections.

Mon Nov 12, 11:58:00 AM CST  
Blogger MommaBlogger said...

I believe you can have a Taxpayer's Identification Number in lieu of a SSN, however in relation to driver's licenses, I'm not sure how all that works.

If I remember correctly, an SSN cannot be used as identification. I believe it used to say that directly on the SSN card itself, though it seems to have been removed. As far as I know, it cannot be legally required for identification though.

Fri Nov 16, 10:57:00 PM CST  
Blogger John Washburn said...

To claim a religious conviction exemption under Wisconsin DOT rule Trans 102.15(5)(b) you used to need to fill out form MV3415.

Now the new, (in my opinion unconstitutional form) is form MV2958.

Neither of these forms is available on the Wisconsin DMV website, but if you go to a DMV station and ask for them by NUMBER then you will be given the requested forms.

Fri Nov 16, 11:17:00 PM CST  
Blogger MommaBlogger said...

Count on the DMV to make things more difficult. Of course, if you actually tell people it's optional to have an SSN, they might actually choose not to participate!

Sat Nov 17, 08:26:00 AM CST  
Blogger John Washburn said...

Yes, they make it difficult, but they have done so for the 20 years I have been claiming the exemption.

The form is secret in the sense is never advertised. If you ask for it by number the person at the counter will not know what it is. But, if you ask them to get the supervisor, then the form is found in the files.

The question from the DMV about an exemption from the SSA leads me to believe there is another obscure, never advertised form/procedure at the social security administration to get a similar exemption to the SSN from the SSA.

This obscured and unadvertised form is what I was looking for with this blog entry.

From SSA-L676 is a certification FROM the SSA that the bearer is ineligible for Social Security and thus CANNOT be issued a SSN.

This is not my situation as I was born in Illinois and thus I am eligible for social security if I want to enroll.

Sat Nov 17, 02:42:00 PM CST  
Anonymous Outside the Box Ministries said...

I am also interested in finding out about how to remove my "mark" as I feel that is what it is according to my religious convictions. If you have found anything since your previous post please let me know. I have gotten a lot of grief so far over this, but I strongly believe that the SS Number and the SS Card is the mark of the beast, or in the least, a precusor to it. Blessings to you.

Mon May 31, 12:37:00 PM CDT  
Blogger Patrick O'Hara said...

Not sure about the mark of the beast. I believe that the mark of the beast is going to be a more obvious choice. I have always imagined a line with many people in it. At the end of the line there would be money and drugs and women and what ever else you can think of and there will be a guy with a gun pointed at your head. Your choice will be between the guy with the gun and everything else. I don't think that the choice to have the mark of the beast is going to be something that you might miss.

Mon May 31, 03:45:00 PM CDT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that the Ssn is the mark. Of course, many will say that it is not...there's too much to lose, like your drivers license. Respectful interpretation of the scriptures suggest that one should not risk their soul based upon "I don't think..." when there is so much evidence to the contrary, like title 42 of the U.S. Code, section 666 which says no rights for you with no number. The SSA says that the only way to remove the mark is to never use it again. So you don't need to beg anyone's permission.

Sun Jul 05, 02:30:00 PM CDT  

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